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Talk:Fury
"Fury" vs. Hakaishin Afaik Fury means something else in the English Devil Summoner games. But anyway, Fury should be a disambiguation (education) page. Structuring the wiki this way makes it impossible for me to contribute because I don't know anything about the Atlus of America games. Megami Tensei isn't like a game like Final Fantasy. It's set concretely in Tokyo with very Japanese terms, and all of the language and entities referenced within it have a 1:1 relationship to historical/cultural phenomenon. That is, it is not set in a fantasy universe, and it doesn't just draw on mythology etc. for inspiration, it is a rule that everything must have some basis in human history and thought. The only games that have ever broken any of rules are Giten Megaten on occasion and the Last Bible games (at least in terms of setting) I actually prefer reading the wiki to playing the games, but I can hardly find my way around it much less work on it as is... and I can only imagine how inaccessible it would be if such logic was followed to it's ultimate conclusion. If the key terms are to be ignorant of the games' basis in reality and mythology then what's the point? --Yksehtniycul 01:27, 31 July 2009 (UTC) : The Translation use Fury has an Translation to Hakaishin in the most recent games and I think the more familiar term should be used since I doubt many fans know what an Hakaishin is. --Maha Bufudyne 03:00, 31 July 2009 (UTC) :I don't know anything about SMT I or II, yet I find myself still contributing about said games ^^; BLUER一番 09:46, 31 July 2009 (UTC) ::Point is there really isn't a one to one translation between terms. Atlus of America does not respect it's own translations. Like I said, Fury was used in Devil Summoner even though it has a very limited family system. I don't have a problem with the page, as much as suggesting Hakaishin is what Fury means. I don't think that is appropriate. Fury is just a stupid word (as in as good as any random word) Atlus of America chose to use in place of another word basically and should be treated as such for the sake of transparency. Treat subjects for what they are. Beisde, Fury already has a meaning in Megaten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furies) ::PS: I respect where you're coming from, but it's just not sound, and is technically highly misleading. I would never stand behind the notion of using Atlus of America productions as gospel or artifacts of their work as keywords. For instances like Pyro Jack that is ridiculous, and in other cases like "Cerberus" it's not worth getting into at this point (I'm speaking in the present tense despite my reservations to involve myself further) ...technically however words should be used as they are, and using Fury this way should be limited to pages which only attempt to broach the games (versions) in which it was used that way. In which case Hakaishin should be it's on page, and Fury should not include SMT1or2 or if... unless Atlus of America produces versions of those games and uses the word Fury in them. Wiki's are supposed to document reality, basically using Fury this way breaks the wikipedia in-universe boiler plate warning. The pages are supposed to be objective. --Yksehtniycul 20:31, 31 July 2009 (UTC) Seiten Taisei vs. Wu Kong These are the same devil. Seiten is the Japanese name for a Chinese figure, Wu Kong is contraction of the Chinese. Though there are many Chinese names / epithets for the same character. This is why at digitaldevildb.com we use the most commonly accepted academic name of original dialect pronounceable in English. --Yksehtniycul 01:37, 31 July 2009 (UTC) PS: I get that these are listed by game, but the reader should be able to immediately tell that those are the same devil from game to game somehow. Especially the jump from Japanese to English (Atlus of America) names on the same page is very jarring (unless you go back translating which is even more misleading) --Yksehtniycul 01:50, 31 July 2009 (UTC) : Nocturne came first and used the term Wu Kong then after that no one translation has ever referred to him in any other way that Seiten Taisei. --Maha Bufudyne 03:01, 31 July 2009 (UTC) ::If he is called Seiten Taisei in an English game, that is so wrong, because it implies he is a Japanese figure, when he is really Chinese. If Atlus of America did that, why should a wiki be compelled to do anything but treat the usage of a matter of fact? Ie. not use it for root article, and only use it when citing a particular devil in a particular version of a particular game. --Yksehtniycul 20:37, 31 July 2009 (UTC) 蛮力 From what I've observed Atlus of America also "translates" 蛮力 (Banryoku) to "Fury" in the Raidou games. I've seen entries in appearances sections which use this term. At any rate, the translation is basically Brute Force, and as you can guess it's probably not an exclusive club for Hakaishin. In fact Hakaishin is a pretty exclusive club in itself, so there might be few to none actually in this family.--Yksehtniycul 21:11, 31 July 2009 (UTC) PS: This is a fine page, but it's title should be something like Fury (Atlus of America) if the wiki is supposed to be straight forward. --Yksehtniycul 21:12, 31 July 2009 (UTC) Destroyer I think we should change the name of the article to Destroyer. The Destroyer race is about to be introduced in Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE and it contains the demons that usually belong in the "Fury/Hakaishin" clan. Seeing as how IMAGINE is the most recent game in which the race appears, we should change it to Destroyer, as it a better translation than Fury. We can make note that Fury is used in other games while Destroyer seems to be a more recent tradition. AetherMaster 04:19, September 29, 2009 (UTC) :So they're not using Fury as translation for Hakaishin? I'm for better translations, but this is new to me. Opinions? BLUER一番 08:14, September 29, 2009 (UTC) Fury Order and Race Why are the Fury Order from Raidou series, and Fury race from the rest considered the same? Shouldn't they be separated? 14:27, November 9, 2016 (UTC)